译介丨库布里克与宿醉，保罗·托马斯·安德森谈《固有缺陷》

作者：Amelia Abraham2015年1月13日

保罗·托马斯·安德森不仅是最才华横溢的在世导演之一，也是对外界最随性的人之一。他是《不羁夜》、《木兰花》和《大师》幕后的策划者——所有这些深沉、复杂的电影都因他有了自己独一无二的属性——但他的片场布景却被描述为“随意”以至到了乱七八糟的地步。这里是他本人——胡子拉碴，露齿而笑，把头探出宾馆窗外抽着烟——随性的他让我完全放轻松了。

Paul Thomas Anderson isn't only one of the most talented film directors alive but also apparently one of the most chilled out. He's the mastermind behind Boogie Nights, Magnolia, and The Master—all heavy, complex films in their own right—but his sets have been described as relaxed to the point of chaotic. In person—unshaven, grinning, and smoking out of the hotel window—he puts me totally and utterly at ease.

他的新电影，《固有缺陷》，会于本月晚些时候在各大影院上映，电影讲述了1970年代的加利福尼亚州，瘾君子兼私家侦探 Doc Sportello（杰昆·菲尼克斯饰）调查一起神秘绑架案的故事。当第一幕开始、一缕大麻烟雾徐徐飘出菲尼克斯的口中时，你就被架上了一场错综复杂但叫人成瘾的冒险，遭遇新纳粹摩托车帮、黑豹帮以及凶残的高利贷业者，而这一切都被置在了曼森杀人案造成的多疑氛围之中。

His new film, Inherent Vice, hits cinemas later this month, telling the story of Doc Sportello (played by Joaquin Phoenix), a stoner private investigator on a mysterious kidnapping case in 1970s California. From the very first scene, when a slow stream of weed smoke drifts out of Phoenix's mouth, you're bundled along on a heady and convoluted adventure, encountering neo-Nazi bikers, Black Panthers, and murderous loan sharks, all in a climate of post-Manson-murder paranoia.

我和PTA聊了电影，电影里的音乐，以及启发他的一些电影

I talked to Paul Thomas Anderson about the movie, its music, and some of the films that inspire him as a director.

VICE：So，首先，固有缺陷是什么意思？

PTA：它指所有你无法避免的事。你懂的：鸡蛋破壳、巧克力融化，玻璃碎裂。所有事物都有内在缺陷——尤其是人类本身，我想。

VICE: So, first, what does Inherent Vice mean? Paul Thomas Anderson: It's everything you can't avoid. You know: Eggs break, chocolate melts, glass shatters. There are these built-in defects in everything—particularly in human beings, I suppose.

你已经告诉我们关于为什么你决定改编Thomas Pynchon的同名小说。这部小说是个非常浓重复杂的阴谋小说。你有没有担心过你的观众可能在观看的时候完全懵掉了。as opposed to confusing them a little bit,which seems to be Pynchon's intention?

有些人比我聪明多了，他们看了之后感觉自己懂了。这令我很震惊，因为我还在努力去跟上所有的信息。我认为它可能是有些难以理解。我们曾想办法找一些人来看这部电影，让他们只是随着片子走、随着节奏来，不去费劲地思考电影，要是他们错过了一些重要片段，他们就会看不明白。

You've told us about why you decided to adapt Thomas Pynchon's novel of the same name. It's a pretty thick plot. Was it ever a concern that Inherent Vicemight completely confuse your audience, as opposed to confusing them a little bit, which seems to be Pynchon's intention? There are some people who are much smarter than I am, and they can watch it and feel like they just get it. That's shocking to me because I'm still trying to catch up with all the information. I think it can be frustrating. We've got to try to find a way to try to get people to come and see the movie and just go with the flow and the rhythm and not try to think that, if they miss some crucial piece, that they're not going to get it.

It's about the ride.

对。我认为用这个角度看电影挺好的，就像是，你昨晚喝了酒，今天早上你醒了的那瞬间，有那么几分之一秒你完全正常，接着你就突然想起，你思索，等等，我昨晚干了什么？接着你就开始遭宿醉的罪了。你有这样的经历吗？

It's about the ride. Right. I think it's good to think of the film as, like, that moment when you wake up in the morning and you've been drinking the night before, but for a fraction of a second you're completely fine, and then you suddenly remember and think, Wait a minute, what did I do last night? And then you're hungover. Have you ever had that?

有啊，虽然有时候这会持续好几个小时。其实电影本身有就点像醉了一样。我感到醉意开始于Can的那首歌开场的那一秒。是你选的那首歌吗？

我的确选了那首歌。谁不痴迷于Can呢？我不认识那种人。选这首歌开场的确是个好方法，既有些令人激动又富有能量，它给了开场一个真正好的悬疑，并发动了电影，这么开场电影的确不错。Jonny[Greenwood,Radiohead乐队成员，为此电影配乐] 也痴迷于他们，而且已经有段时间了。

Yeah, although sometimes it lasts a few hours. The film itself was intoxicating in that way, though. I felt drunk from the second that Can song came on at the beginning. Did you choose that? I did choose that song. Who's not obsessed with Can? I don't know anybody who isn't. That was a good way of starting the movie with a little bit of excitement and energy, and there's a really groovy paranoia to it and an engine to it. It was good to get the movie started that way. Jonny [Greenwood, of Radiohead, who soundtracked the film] is obsessed with them, too, and has been for a while.

https://www.bilibili.com/video/av6196798?from=search&seid;=6034447166886586319

Can - Vitamin C

还有尼尔·杨。你对电影里他的音乐怎么看？

不论如何，我一直都有听Neil Young，他长得挺1970的，那腮帮子和那该死的头发，还有那帽子和军队夹克。 I mean, it's all Neil Young wardrobe—like, straight up lifted from Neil Young.

And Neil Young. What do you think his music brings to the film? I listen to Neil Young all the time anyway, but I really put it on double play when I was writing and making the movie. It does a few things—it adds a sweet melancholy to it. It helps people feel a little safe when they hear Neil Young; it kind of brings you back to shore. It's familiar. We tried to make Doc look like Neil Young even; he's got that kind of 1970s look with the chops and the fucking hair and the hat and the army jacket. I mean, it's all Neil Young wardrobe—like, straight up lifted from Neil Young.

A bit grizzly. Joaquin Phoenix真的很合适那种打扮，但我听说你原本打算让Robert Downey Jr. f来演的？

这是以前被报道过的…我们再谈一起做一部电影，或者一起工作，这是一个被媒体挑中的可能性。这真是件奇怪的事——像是，这件事完全没被非常严肃地讨论过。但他不会是合适的人选。他啥都好演，但我觉得Joaquin来演这个角色更好。

A bit grizzly. Joaquin Phoenix really suits that look, but I heard you were going to cast Robert Downey Jr. first? That was something that was reported... We were talking about doing a movie together, or just working together, and it was one possibility that kind of got picked up by the press. It's that weird thing—like, it was never super serious at all. But he wouldn't have been right. He can do anything, but I think it was better to have Joaquin.

来聊聊女主演之一的Katherine Waterson吧，你看过她演过其他的什么电影吗？

我看过她演的The Babysitter 。. It's a movie about these girls who are babysitters but who are also running a call-girl agency. Maybe that premise sounds a bit horse shit，但不是那样的——这真的是一部有趣的电影。你该看看，他在里面演的很棒。

What about Katherine Waterson, who plays one of the female leads? What else had you seen her in? I saw her in this movie The Babysitter. It's a movie about these girls who are babysitters but who are also running a call-girl agency. Maybe that premise sounds a bit horse shit, but it really is not—it's a really interesting film. You should check it out. She's great in it.

你倾向于和一打演员一起工作，像是《不羁夜》、《木兰花》，还有现在的《固有缺陷》。其中有很多大牌。这如何影响你的工作方式？

是啊，《木兰花》就像是那样，但在那个时候——嗯，汤姆·克鲁斯当然是个巨星，但我们才刚制作完《不羁夜》，所以有很多相同的人是从那部电影里选的，其中有很多人因为《不羁夜》变得有点名气。

《固有缺陷》很棒是因为大家来就只是为了电影，像是，两三天。除了Joaquin，其他人都没多少内容要拍。Joaquin 要参与整部电影。Katherine也要拍很多。和明星们一起工作很棒。你会了解那些有坏名声的人——那些你该躲得远远的人。你就尽量不要去和那些人一起工作。

You tend to work with an ensemble cast, like in Boogie Nights, Magnolia, and nowInherent Vice. There are a lot of big names. How does that affect the way you work? Yeah, Magnolia was like that, but at the time—well, Tom Cruise was a big star obviously, but we'd just come from making Boogie Nights, so it was a lot of the same people from that, and there were a lot of people who became quite famous from making Boogie Nights.

Inherent Vice was great because people would just come in for, like, two or three days. Nobody had that much to do except Joaquin. Joaquin was there for everything. Katherine had a lot to do, too. It's great to work with stars. You'll know the people who have bad reputations are—who to stay away from. You just try not to work with those people.

然后，显然的，你和那群干得好的人又一起合作了？像是Philip Seymour Hoffman，或者Joaquin Phoenix？

显而易见的，对。

And then, clearly, you work with those same people again if it works well? Like Philip Seymour Hoffman, or Joaquin Phoenix? Absolutely, yeah.

Joaquin Phoenix and Benicio Del Toro in 'Inherent Vice'

作为一名电影制作人，什么样的电影启发了你？

Rope Man，狂野的东西，《奇爱博士》，This Is Spinal Tap…太多了。There's probably nothing that hasn't been said about Spinal Tap already，并且可能它是那种电影之一it's so quoted, 人们对它如此了解，但你依旧能回看它，并且不会感到疲倦。它他妈的是那样有趣。

我记得当Spinal Tap的海报贴出来的时候。我和我兄弟住在加利福尼亚洲的 Westwood。那些海报上只是黑底，用重金属字体写了“这是当Spinal Tap”，没人知道这是啥，但我搞明白了，因为前一天晚上我看了 David Letterman的脱口秀，并看到了这电影的片段，所以我推测，“这不是一部有关重金属乐队的电影，它的主题是gag。”于是接着我和我兄弟一起去看电影了。

观众席里有一些人完全就是重金属乐的热衷者，来看一部有关一支他们从没听说过的重金属乐队的电影。他们没真笑出来，但我和我兄弟却一起狂笑不止，我们知道我们看了部以后会反复反复再反复看的电影。

What kind of movies inspired you as a filmmaker? Repo Man, Something Wild, Dr. Strangelove, This IsSpinal Tap... too many. There's probably nothing that hasn't been said about Spinal Tap already, and perhaps it's one of those things—it's so quoted, people know it so well, but you can still go back to it and you won't be tired of it. It's so fucking funny.

I remember I was in Westwood, California with my brother when the posters for that came out. They were just these black posters that said "This is Spinal Tap" in this heavy metal font. No one knew what it was, but I'd figured it out because the night before I was watching The David Letterman Show and I saw a clip from it and I figured, "This is not a film about a heavy metal band—this is a gag." And so I took my brother.

There were these other guys in the audience who were complete heavy metal heads who I think had come to see a movie about a heavy metal band that they'd never heard of. They weren't really laughing, but my brother and I were in hysterics. We knew we'd seen the movie that we were going to see over and over and over again.

《固有缺陷》里好像也有关于gag的基础元素，你对这些有多严肃？你是否一直刻意知道发生了什么？

《2001：太空奥德赛》也让我的脑袋飞转。每当我看这部电影时，我不懂发生了什么，或是电影是关于什么的，但接着就会有像灵光一现那样的东西；像是有3或4个画面我会顿时领悟到这部电影是在讲什么，但它转瞬即逝——it'll just sort of whisk away. 就算我现在尝试，我也没办法告诉你电影是在讲什么，但当我看它的时候，当我浸泡在它里时，那种感觉很让人享受，而且感觉棒极了。

There seems to be that gag element to Inherent Vice as well, like, how seriously should you take it? Are you always meant to know what's going on? 2001: A Space Odyssey makes my head spin in the same way. Every time I see it I don't understand what's going on or what the movie's about, and then there's this kind of flash; for like three or four frames I'll get this kind of epiphany about what it's all about, and it's fleeting—it'll just sort of whisk away. I couldn't tell you what that movie's about even if I tried right now. But when watching it, when I'm immersed in it, it's an enjoyable experience and that's a good feeling.

So you're a Kubrick fan. Dr. Strangelove—I haven't seen it, but it's about the Cold War, right? There are lots of side notes about communism in Inherent Vice. Is that something you played upon deliberately? Yeah, having fun with the absurdity of male macho behavior, you know, guys in war rooms arguing with each other, Russians acting like children, Americans acting like adults who think they know better than the children. It's great. Everything in that film. You've got to see that movie. You've got to fucking see that movie. Seeing characters get really obsessed about their politics is usually pretty funny with a little bit of distance. That's what's great about that movie.

Do you think that manifests in your film? Yeah, I think so, a little bit, sure. All that stuff that you were talking about. There's a haze of the Golden Fang [a mysterious ship/gang/something that keeps getting mentioned in Inherent Vice]. The Golden Fang is basically a sort of deposit for anything that pisses you off. The Golden Fang is, you know, when your computer's not working. The Golden Fang would be entirely responsible for that. No new climate change laws? That's because the Golden Fang is stopping them. It's everything and anything that's pissing you off, I suppose.

A bit like inherent vice itself? Right.

Follow Amelia Abraham on Twitter.

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